JT Townsend |
Jerry Smith: I don’t believe you have a deep writing
background. What made you want to write about crime? Have you always been
interested in crime research investigation?
JT Townsend: When
I was a kid I read Agatha Christie’s Ten
Little Indians. You know, I’m a fourth grader, I’m reading books on
baseball. Suddenly everyone starts being murdered, and they realize the
murderer is one of them. I was hooked. Shortly after that, I read about the
Lizzie Borden case. Anybody who reads about the Lizzie Borden case will become
hooked on true crime. Then for the detection part, that was kind of the mystery
there. I also watched a lot of Columbo
episodes. If you recall, that was not a “whodunit.” Did you ever see a Columbo?
JS: I love Columbo.
JT: They would give away the murderer in the first few
minutes. It’s all about the final thing Columbo’s going to say. He’s sucking up
to the killer the whole episode. It’s the final thing he’ll say and he’ll
finally say, “Okay. Gotcha!” It’s always “one more thing, sir.” The murderer
always tries to explain it. Then, right at the end, he’s got him.
As for writing, I do have a B.A. in English from Miami
University. I always wrote the best emails of anyone in the company I worked
for. I had the company president ask me to edit copy. I started my first
freelance piece in 1997 and went from there. You know I wrote Queen City Gothic during chemotherapy.
JS: Yes.
JT: Terrible first draft. Terrible. But it was a draft.
JS: You had a book.
JT: Years of editing. Chemo was 2007 to 2009. A lot of
editing. But I had a book.
JS: Were you working
full time at that time?
JT: I was. But that’s kind of how I got into crime writing.
JS: Tell me about your
research. What surprises has it let to?
JT: I have a genealogist on retainer. That is the most fascinating
part of this. I can get into the newspaper files, but it’s the back-story—what
came later, what came before. In researching Queen City Notorious, the guy who killed the little girl in front
of the railroad tracks, an unspeakable crime and the guy was a pedophile.
Through genealogy I was able to learn he got his life straightened out. He went
through two unspeakable tragedies; his son died, then six months later several
members of his family were killed in a car/train accident. He went off the deep
end. None of that was in the paper about his background. About how this guy had
two terrible shocks in a row. His life was going well, but he lapsed back into
being a pedophile.
I lost my sister in a car accident. It’s shocking. A phone
call one morning ... “Your sister’s dead.” Wow. Genealogy research has
uncovered all this about this guy’s life. It makes you sort of sympathetic
towards the killer. It’s hard to beat. Especially to someone who would kill a
child.
I’m good on the microfilm, digging into case files on
people, but the genealogy, that has been the most fascinating part of this. The
facets of the story that it uncovers.
JS: What other type of
information does the genealogy uncover? Is it just related to the person you
are researching? Or other details?
JT: It’s the gamut. It’s people for me to interview, you get
birthdates, death dates, relatives, in some cases significant life events come
up. Like the case I was telling you about. It really gives you another chapter,
an extra mile to the story. The genealogist I have is a real pro. A
professional genealogist will give you an incredible background check. It’s an
area I’m not adept at.
JS: Is that a
full-time position for them?
JT: Yes. She has a lot of clients. She’s good. I profusely
thank her at the beginning of my acknowledgements, Tricia Huff. It’s stuff I
wouldn’t be able to find out without her.
JS: Are national
cases, such as Lizzie Borden and the Lindbergh baby, more interesting than
local cases, such as the Cincinnati Strangler, whom you actually feature in one
of your presentations?
JT: I’m thinking more about what makes a case enter the
national consciousness. Or even a local consciousness.
JS: I would think
being famous would help.
JT: Definitely in the case of Lindbergh, obviously. The
most famous couple in America, the most famous child in America is missing and
killed. That’s a slam-dunk. It’s been called the greatest story since the
resurrection.
JT: The Borden family was not well known outside their own
hometown. If they had died natural deaths, we wouldn’t know anything about
them. The murder of Andrew and Abby Borden and the trial of their daughter
Lizzie makes you wonder why that case has stayed with us when other sensational
cases, other sensational ax murders, have not. I will say this—the Lizzie
Borden case—one of my favorite true crime writers, Edmund Pierson, revived it
1924, then wrote an article about it in a magazine. He ended up reviving the
case. I’m sure I’ll do a Lizzie Borden book. I mean, why not? I’m still mad
about that case.
JS: What common
threads do you find in criminal minds and behavior? Do you see the same things
happening in different cases?
JT: Talking murder, murder is either a matter of passion or gain.
It’s either some kind of personal cause homicide, where someone is personally
involved with the victim, or you’re trying to gain something, financial or
otherwise. You know what stands out about everyone I’ve studied? They’re bold.
They’re willing to take risks that you and I won’t. People like you and I will
often say, how can someone do something like that, y’know? ‘Cause it’s beyond
us. But we forget that criminals take these kind of risks every day. They don’t
think about it. You have to be somewhat of a narcissist, obviously. And
somewhat of a sociopath. They say four percent of all people are born
sociopaths. Look how we see that today. Murderers. Computer hackers. Guy who
kills a senior—he was going to clean the gutters and he skips out with the
money. Sociopaths. They don’t care about anyone else. Four percent cause 99% of
the world’s problems.
(JT discusses the
Lizzie Borden case in more detail, among others, in Part 2 of our interview)
JS: What cases keep
you up at night and why?
JT: You know my wife said once when I was researching Queen City Gothic, she said I woke up
in the middle of the night and said, “She’s his sister and his mother,” and
fell back asleep.
JS: (Laughter)
JT: My wife goes, “What was that?” I didn’t know. His sister
and his mother ... could be Ted Bundy. The Ted Bundy case haunts me because it
was a case of incest. They never identified his father. His grandfather was a
big, virile violent man whose own life was troubled. Bundy’s mother was the
eldest daughter. She was a Christian woman, the school valedictorian, yet she’s
used, impregnated and abandoned by some shadowy guy nobody knows? Her own
family didn’t believe that story, her other relatives. It was her father, I’m
sure of it. That one bothers me.
I think of that little girl, Ann Marie Burr, who disappeared
from her neighborhood in 1961. Ted Bundy is their paperboy? Those keep me up
the most, where you have an unsolved crime where you have a known perpetrator
nearby—those I just can’t get out of my head.
JS: Can you comment on
the effectiveness of the police and the criminal justice system? Do you think
it is successful most of the time?
JT: Pass. (both laugh)
JS: Has your research
ever helped you uncover new information on an unsolved case?
JT: Everything I’ve done with Bricca. More and more people
will talk with me. Some of it’s hearsay, some of it is circumstantial, but it
keeps coming. I’m always looking for information about that case.
JS: Let’s discuss your
books. Queen City Gothic—you’ve discussed
some of what went into the publishing of that book, could you provide a bit
more detail?
JT: To get my mind off chemotherapy. I already had all the
articles. It was a hobby, I collected cold case articles. That was the easy
part. It was my wife’s idea.
JS: What about your
second book, Queen City Notorious?
How did Gothic lead into Notorious?
JT: Well, some of the detectives I worked with on Gothic said hey, great book, but we
look like Keystone Cops on some of these cases. Can you write a book where we
solve the cases? I said okay—I wrote a book about mystery, I’ll write one about
justice. It’s as simple as that. It’s probably my mistake, I didn’t include cases
with already a lot of information out there. I didn’t do Ann Marie Hahn, I
didn’t do George Remus. I didn’t do James Ruppert, who killed his family up in
Hamilton on Easter. Eleven people massacred. The only well-known case I have in
there is Edythe Klumpp. I think the other cases are sensational. They were all
huge news at the time. Every one of them. None of them has really stood the
test of time, though. I wanted people to discover these cases. In chapter three
of my book, one of the wealthiest women in Cincinnati is shot in her mansion by
her son-in-law. Coverage today would be epic if something like that happened.
Epic!
JS: I really enjoy
attending your lectures. They tend to be riveting from beginning to end. What
do you like about speaking to live audiences? Does public speaking come
naturally?
JT: I like the live audiences. I like the fact that I’m
there talking about something that fascinates me, and I know people wouldn’t be
sitting there unless they were fascinated too. I was going to be a teacher
coming out of college. I even taught my last semester. It didn’t go well. I
decided not to do it. I’m sort of getting that teacher vibe again. But I have
interested students all the time. The people are why I’m there, the bigger the
audience the better. When I give a Bricca talk, and there are more than a
hundred people, it’s an event. That Monfort Heights Bricca talk? I felt like a
rock star.
JS: (Laughs). I
imagine they were engaged.
JT: They finally had to kick us out. The library closed at
eight. I kept seeing the librarian going like this (slices finger across throat). Finally she came up at five of
eight—they booed her.
JS: Really!
JT: They would have stayed there until midnight if they had
stayed open. I love the audiences—true crime people. People who are as
fascinated as me about these kind of things—things none of us would ever dream
of doing. They start off being narcissists and become sociopathic. They’ll take
the risk. We can’t put ourselves in their place. I love the audiences, Jerry.
You know that.
JS: Are you on a
mission to punish bad guys and solve crimes? Or is this just a hobby for you?
JT: I’m an armchair detective. I do want to keep a distance.
Would I love to solve a cold case like Bricca? Sure. Do I see that happening?
Probably not. In terms of cold cases; social justice. Here’s me solving it.
Believe me, I’ve put a lot of thought and research into this, you can trust my
judgment. I’ve put myself into a position to be an expert. To make the calls.
To say who did it. I’m not going to cop out and say I don’t know. Social
justice. That’s the best we can hope for on some of these cases. So we don’t forget
these people. The victims.
JS: You’ve done a lot
of lectures and talked to a lot of folks. What is the weirdest experience
you’ve had or weirdest question you’ve been asked? That you can talk about?
JT: (Laughs) I’m
thinking about this one—This is my funniest moment, without question. I was
talking about the Coby case in Queen
City Gothic. A husband and wife shot to death in their garage. Their eight-year-old
son came home from school and found them. I have a picture of Dennis and Evelyn Coby
in the book. I’ve got the picture up there and the woman raises her hand. She
says, “It’s obvious from that picture that they were killed by his gay lover.”
I said “What?” She said, “Well, look at his wife! She’s five feet tall and
looks like a boy.” I looked at the picture of Ellen Coby and she was very
diminutive, very skinny, short hair ... I know Tom Coby, I’d never say anything
bad about his parents. But I just looked at her and saw how boyish she looked
and I had to sit down. Actually everybody started laughing and I thought, “Oh
my God.” She said, “He probably had some altar boy as a lover or something.” I
sat in the corner and just said, “Time out—what if she’s right about that?”
That was weird.
JS: What is the
subject of your next book?
JT: It will be about the Bricca case. Write about what you
know, they say. I know true crime, and I know Bricca.
JS: That is one of the
most interesting cases you’ve ever talked about.
JT: It’s the most notorious cold case in Cincinnati history.
I don’t know all the Ohio crimes, but I’d say it’s the number two cold case in
Ohio behind Marilyn Sheppard. The Marilyn Sheppard case is the one—it’s Ohio’s
greatest mystery. I’m going to give a talk on that case. Buddy, there are five
suspects, including the good doctor. In addition to Eberling, there are three
others. It has to be one of these five. It’s going to be a good talk. We’re
going to look at all five of these people, put them under the microscope.
My next book will be Bricca. The only question is whether it
will be a true crime, non-fiction book, or if it will be a novel.
JS: I wondered what you do to get away from
crime writing.
JT: My brother asked me once ... “Is that all you ever think
about is murder?” I’m a huge baseball fan. I played baseball for the longest
time. I like other sports—I’m an avid tennis player. I love being in an art
museum with my wife, looking at the impressionists and post impressionist art.
My wife and I watched a show the other night on Rembrandt. It was fascinating.
I watched a really good show on the DVR last night about Anne Frank—not about
what happened in the house but what her concentration camp experience was like.
They talk about that part of her life and what happened before she died. That’s
not a true crime story.
JS: Actually it
probably is.
JT: Well, in a larger sense it might be the greatest true
crime story of all time in terms of body count. The mood of this piece was so
melancholy. They showed the beautiful grounds today where the concentration
camps were, you realized what happened there ... but, I do have a lot of other
interests.
JT: A guilty pleasure?
JS: Sure, that’ll do.
JT: I’ll tell you the movie; Somewhere in Time.
JS: I love that movie!
JT: Christopher Reeve and Jane Seymour.
JS: The most beautiful
woman who ever lived.
JT: You know the movie.
JS: I do.
JT: If you said that, I’d say you’ve seen it more than once.
JS: (both laugh) I
have.
JT: I’m not saying that’s the greatest movie in the world
...
JS: No!
JT: It typically garners two stars out of four in the guide.
It’s a guilty pleasure. The whole hook of it ... everything about it. The old
woman—“Come back to me!”
JS: Giving him the
watch, yeah.
JT: Giving him the watch. Then he pulls the penny out of his
pants, the 1879 penny. We watched that a month or so ago. The whole thing
starts with that photograph of Jane Seymour he sees at the hotel. That
photograph had to be just right for the picture to work. Then you learn that
she was looking at him when the photograph was taken. That kind of stuff gets
to me. It’s not true crime or anything like that; just the whole idea of that
story. That would be a guilty pleasure. That’s the one I could think of.
JS: I saw that movie
on a date with my first girlfriend in high school. It brings back good
memories.
JT: As far as a true crime movie I think everyone should
watch? The original In Cold Blood.
JS. Is that the one
with Robert Blake? I’ve never seen it.
JT: Black and white, 1967. It put Robert Blake on the map.
It’s one of the only movies filmed about a real event where they shot every
scene where it actually happened. They recreated the Clutter murders in the
house where they actually happened. When they hang the guys in the end, in was
in the place where they hanged the real guys. When they showed the two killers
going cross-country—they had to drive eight hours to get to the farm—they
stopped at the same gas stations and restaurants the real ones did. The
attention to detail for that, the courtroom, everything in that movie was
filmed where it actually happened. But to film a quadruple murder in the house
where it actually occurred? I remember reading that the actors who played the Clutter
family got the willies. It’s black and white, it has a really edgy score by
Quincy Jones, it’s a seminal true crime movie. Anyone who watches it should
understand, wow—this actually happened where these actors are standing. I’ve
never known a movie you could say that about. It’s certainly a real gem.
JS: What is the best
way for people buy your books?
JT: Author House for Queen
City Gothic, Virtual Bookworm for Queen
City Notorious. Buying them directly from my publishers does help support
my mission.
JS: Well JT, thank you
so much for your valuable time, I really appreciate it.
JT: No problem.
Part 2 of this
interview, where JT will discuss famous murder cases in more detail, including
Cincinnati’s famous Bricca case, will be published later this week. Here is a link.
In the meantime,
here’s where you can find more information about JT and his work:
Follow JT Townsend’s blog (https://jtsiteblog.wordpress.com)
or connect with him on Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/TrueCrimeDetective)
Click here to purchase a book:
Also available on Amazon
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